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Heya...

"For Nietzsche to claim God is dead, wouldn't he have to acknowledge His existence in the first place?"

He isnt acknowledging the existence of god in the sense of a truly living thing or entity of the sort a follower would refer to by use of that word. He is acknowledging it in the sense of a concept people put their faith in. The use of the words, 'god' and 'dead' are both symbolic.

The quote is taken out of context, but the statement is used by Nietzsche in a few places. Randy pointed out Zarathustra so I'll bring up something from "The Gay Science" (consider also the title of this book in relation to what is said below about science, and the word 'gay' being used to denote 'joyous' and 'alive')...

It can be found in a passage/parable entitled "The Madman." This allegory opens with the character by that name entering 'the marketplace' searching franticly for god and asking where he has gone. The people in the marketplace laugh at him, for they have already discarded such superstitious beliefs, or so they claim. The mocking continues for a bit, ending suddenly as the madman declares that he knows where god has gone... that god is dead and it is we who have killed him. That we are all the murderers of god.

He continues to chastise the crowd through these blunt declarations, coupled with symbolic statements admonishing the people for their presumption - "Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?" The crowd grows quiet and now appears astonished by his claims, even though they earlier reacted scornfully to his cries of "I seek god!'

As the crowd stands silent, he throws the lit lantern he has been holding to the ground... discarding the symbol of his search. He disdainfully declares that he has 'come too early.' That this 'tremendous event' is still on its way - it 'has not yet reached the ears of man.' That we have yet to truly appreciate what we have done. Thus the vestiges must still remain, and thus we are not really ready to move on. We declare a denial of god's existence, but we have yet to understand just what it truly means to 'kill god' and how monumental such an understanding will be when it comes (the 'Madman' does, hence he is a madman).


Some thoughts on that...

Don't take 'god' to mean the judeo-christian god, Nietzsche is speaking in symbolic terms much broader than just that. Man creates myths, ideas, explanations for why things are as they are and to define how we should believe/behave... and later replaces them as a new 'faith' takes their place. In this way, Nietzsche is using the 'is dead' in a symbolic sense. But the more modern change now holds something different than in past cases.

In the context that surrounds the simple declaration "god is dead," Nietzsche is speaking of the void in man's spiritual-self that is occurring as a result of his systematic rejection of the old myth-based god notions of the spiritual, and the lack of a more developed replacement as we exchange this old faith for a new faith in science. This is something he sees as dangerous... no less so than a past dependence on god-myths, and perhaps in a sense more.

The myth based worldview that was the center of the old western world - the judeo-christian 'god' - has now passed. Man is destroying that which he created... in the same way so many other old myths have come and gone. In the modern world - faith in the latest god, which jews/christians rather arrogantly refer to simply as 'god' for a name, is changing to faith in science, etc.

Nietzsche didnt feel this new faith of 'science' was necessarily a good thing though... least not in the form that was/is developing. Old religions provided reasons for existence and life - poorly founded or not. Faith in science is replacing faith in religion, but its not providing any of those age old meanings we all seek - why are we here, what happens after we die, etc. at least not in any positive way. We are shifting suddenly from a belief in things like an afterlife and a purposeful creation, to the abrupt declaration that life itself is a purposeless accident and that there is nothing after death, with spirituality denied as unimportant. As a result, no matter how valid science fact is said to be, there is a terrible void growing in man leading to the development of a new nihilistic worldview --- a view that - life/existence/the world, has little value (though old religions like Christianity are in their way nihilistic also, since they place little value on life or this world as compared to the 'life' to come after death in the 'other' world - a tragedy).

Regardless of how much someone tries to say they do not believe in god... the effect of the past influence of these god-myths and their associated ideas on life and afterlife have gone so deeply into our societies and collective unconscious that the residual effect still remains. Belief in an afterlife, accurate on not, is comforting, as is the belief that we are not alone on this world and that our existence isnt pointless. The past influence of 'god' has built in us a need for these explanations and this comfort, but also a particular way we go about 'following' these beliefs. We are ingrained with a need to have 'faith' in something. Rejecting old faiths in god for new 'faith' in science isnt really a full denial of 'god' at all. Its just us saying we dont believe in the term 'god' and its older manifestations as we take up a new faith (science), retaining our old 'follower' behaviors (the 'shadows of god').

The people in the marketplace may laugh and mock the madman searching for god, saying they don't believe in him and that the concept is foolish. But when finally confronted with the idea that they have 'killed god' and forced to face the awesome reality of this concept and what it truly means, they stand shocked and dumbfounded. "This deed is still more distant from them than the most distant stars,... and yet they have done it themselves." They have yet to understand what they have done or the danger it presents - the building void of spirituality that looms... the abyss widening below us. The 'madman' does.

If we really were faced with the absolute truth that 'god' and all that comes with that notion does not exist, instead of just our claimed rejection of that idea, the awesome reality would hit us like a hammer.

As much as he condemned Christianity, Nietzsche wasnt at all against Spirituality (spirituality doesnt have to come in the form we are most accustomed - a belief in 'god' and religion). He wanted to see a progression beyond the old myths, to a new rebirth of spirituality and with it a revaluation of all our values, especially those founded outside the human/natural condition (as in the case of most dominant religions). These things should be based in reality - our human nature and the natural world. While we can denounce myths, especially one's that are harmful/detrimental, we cannot deny the fact that we are 'spiritual beings.' But we should not look to mythical creations and heavenly hosts for our answers, nor should we simply trade these god-myths for a new dependence on science 'myths.' We should move beyond these things, surpassing what was (or what might wrongfully come to be) to find more of what should be. The meaning of life is to be found in life itself, the world it is lived in, and a joyous embracing of our existence and our individual strengths and virtues.


Hope that makes sense, its probably a bit clumsy in a summarized form... Nietzsche presented these ideas over volumes of work. In one way its pretty simple but as it gets looked at deeper it quickly gets complex.

Keep forgetting to move this over.

- Arius